On Trade Unions (continued)

Klark Joined: 28.10.2005 Posts: 62
 Posted: December 15, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject:
 Of course, Vladimir, I want all the participants of the Forum was in favor of economic law, how it operates today. Since potatoes are all good and clear, but probably not true, because the ideal conditions do not exist. Today, the administration of cities, regions, government, MPs, all play on the side of the owner of the means of production, but for the most part are the owners themselves and, therefore, the conditions of the sale of labor initially unequal, so that the employee has to pay much for them to consume goods and services. To clarify this issue we distinguish basic concepts:A. Wages are labor costs, and it is determined by the magnitude of which is necessary for the reproduction of the labor force. But it must be clearly understood that the real value is not predetermined in advance, and established as a result of the confrontation, the employer and employee. And if the employee is not always defend their wages, then it goes down, not standing still. In reality, it looks as though the employer pays as much for how many agree to work or that person a certain profession, but not the individual, and srednestatichesky.

Two. Real wages - it is the purchasing power of currency. That is, as the means of subsistence available for salaries. It is necessary to clarify that an employee must defend not only the formal wage, but its real content. Oppose the unwinding of inflation, against the bureaucracy of the delta, included in all goods and services (see note Igor Zjatev "Problems of the townspeople - who they decide?") Against the unrestricted labor migration. That is, it is important not only to sell the potatoes to 6 rubles, but also have the opportunity to buy something for these six rubles.Three. Today we are trying to convince us that the labor market are not enough builders, and therefore employ the Tajiks and Uzbeks. But in reality, the employer is not willing to pay the wages needed to local residents, as their costs of the family is much above the subsistence level of guest workers. And this is not the price of housing, as its price and so much more than the cost of construction costs, since the bureaucracy takes a huge housing rents. This may decrease their income, but the developer, as they are concerned.
Therefore, employees must ensure that official and a businessman did not act as a united front, so you need to counteract the collusion of officials and businessmen, and therefore, it is necessary to counter the monopolization of markets, so it is necessary to maintain fair and honest businessman, journalist, and so on and so forth, that is, constantly engaged in upholding its interests and to act wisely and clearly organized.VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: December 15, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject:
 Klark wrote (a):to act wisely and clearly organized.Defectiveness of the current situation in the organization of protection of workers of their interests (and, consequently, the interests of production and society as well as the interests of the worker, driven into poverty, with the interests of production and society) lies in the fact that workers' organizations are under the "supervision" of employers and wholly dependent on them. Therefore, workers, if they want real, not LZhEprofsoyuzy should exclude the possibility of entering into their organization of representatives of employers. How to do it in practice?No need to dwell on the creation of organizations within the enterprise. Organize a checkpoint in their neighborhood, city. Find like-minded people where there is no employer Ah look, and his lackeys, where you decide whom to invite and who not.AP Guest
 Posted: December 17, 2005 6:34 am Post subject: On Trade Unions
 I allow myself to quote from the theme "Trade union solidarity against police repression," the Forum trud.org. Because this information is correct branch of the discussion here. In this case I consider to trud.org incomparable. interest (judging by the number of views) to the subject here.Quote:We wrote about the incident at the plant in Sual g.Shelehovo the Irkutsk region, where one of the employees, Alexandra Kolovanova, November 25, the security service has detained the company for the distribution of the leaf "Shelehovskiy working." After providing legal support and deployment of a solidarity campaign on the part of free trade unions and left-wing activists, the administration is temporarily subsided, but as it turned out, not for long.According to Alexander, he recently summoned the foreman and asked to write a statement on their own, explaining this by saying that "the team was on top, so it is no longer at the plant worked." Threatened that if you want to keep a clean work record, it is best to leave yourself otherwise - fail to dismiss the article.According to Alexander, Master unofficially said that as he was an employee of his suit, but he is the master, the face of servitude, and if you do not dismiss "the rebel", then fired him. Then for some reason referred to the FSB. "Of course, writing an application, - said Alexander, I refused, - tried to explain the situation to him, for what I was crushed, but he was not interested. In short, we broke even.I spoke with the change, and with his shift foreman, and his friends try to give publicity to the plant. December 15 - profsobranie elections and the trade union chairman of the factory. I'll try to sound out there. Do the authorities appeared unhealthy interest not only to me, ask the artists who are interested in trade unions of workers and generally behaves too active. "Some employees SUAL already decided to join in the free trade union, however, are going to observe secrecy with regard to the lists.The company's management reacted rather harshly to any attempt at self-activity of workers, so if you announce the list of union members, it will soon become a union unemployment, according to workers. Already prepared a second edition of the newspaper "Shelehovskiy working." The room - the materials for the establishment of an independent trade union in the city as part of the Siberian Confederation of Labor (CT), the article about the reaction of the administration of the plant on the yield of number one newspaper article about the death of the worker to work due to faulty equipment in 2003 and the progress of the investigation (rather about how the authorities hush up the case - facts confirmed by documents), plus material on the worker self-management. In turn, the Siberian Confederation of Labor is doing everything possible to protect labor activists.Details, as I understand it, the ikd.ru.Nikolai Baibakov Guest
 Posted: December 20, 2005 8:08 am Post subject:
 Emerged in Shelekhovo Irkutsk region. incident is very characteristic, and clearly shows the confrontation between the interests of the company's management and workers, the opposition, which is strongly silenced and erased. The hosts of servants and leaders are pushing strongly to make sure that workers are in no way did not go out of control, so they did not attempt to perform an independent force that they did not try to understand the issues of cost and pay to hire them at a lower cost. And the workers have not yet fully understand that their living and working conditions can be improved only through the active control, active and united opposition the owners of capital and selling power.They are long overdue to throw a professorial demagogy of the universality and the unity of the nation, the people's power, and so on and advocate for their interests. And it is not necessary to protect its interests from predatory parasites, as it has become accepted, as is done operating Biryusa hydrolysis plant, through hunger strikes, which they announced on November 25. It's time to stop fighting "Babskii" methods, threats to self-destruction, the more that is not very scary, and business owners, especially in the Irkutsk region, where near China. Working Biryusa hydrolysis plant had to take the plant to choose its own administration, to find out where the money is taken away, connect the prosecutor's office and the court, that is to make everyone show up. Then would have the effect of this speech would have been quite different.AP Guest
 Posted: December 24, 2005 7:33 am Post subject: On Trade Unions
 Quote:Working Biryusa hydrolysis plant had to take the plant to choose its own administration, to find out where the money is taken away, connect the prosecutor's office and the court, that is to make everyone show up. Then would have the effect of this speech would have been quite different.An impossible suggestion. But theoretically, you can speculate. Then the plant must have a body like STK. It makes sense to discuss the relationship between trade union and that of the STC, if more or less seriously the recommendations. But it is better to discuss the article Rakitskiy "From the union of disparate ...". And just do it, everything is connected.Nikolai Baibakov Guest
 Posted: December 24, 2005 12:21 pm Post subject:
 I am not fantasizing when he wrote, which is not necessary to protect its interests from predatory parasites, as it has become accepted, as is done operating Biryusa hydrolysis plant, through hunger strikes, which they announced on November 25. It's time to stop fighting "Babskii" methods, threats to self-destruction, the more that is not very scary, and business owners, especially in the Irkutsk region, where near China. Working Biryusa hydrolysis plant had to take the plant to choose its own administration, to find out where the money is taken away, connect the prosecutor's office and the court, that is to make everyone show up. Then would have the effect of this speech would have been quite different. And there is not any imagination, but the program is a real struggle. And no STC (councils of labor collectives) to create not need it immediately puts the workers in an awkward position.Workers imposed to negotiate with the administration of the enterprise, and not to elect her, according to their interests. At one time STC and created the Soviet bureaucracy in order to retain control over the property and create the appearance of self-government, while retaining all the levers of power in their hands. Now I want to dwell on the "impracticability recommendations", as stated by AP because it is a very common view. "We need to set realistic objectives" - this argument to justify his position has always opportunists. "You can not just make something big" - they say. But it does not say - and how to determine the reachability? They offer a choice between evil and present the smallest fix it, because I believe that a small correction is possible. This position is the reformist conciliatory quite satisfied with the current government and they will always play along, talking about consensus, about unity, those for small change. But whether such a happy position of workers? Of course not. Necessary to put the question squarely. Necessary to put such tasks, which would allow not only to solve immediate problems, but also determine the direction for the future. We must show that workers are willing not only to ask his wages, but also ready to take over the management of enterprises, organized and ready to act independently. Only with such a formulation would be possible and the solution of problems.AP Guest
 Posted: December 25, 2005 6:52 am Post subject: On Trade Unions
 Nikolai Baibakov, wrote (a):Necessary to put such tasks, which would allow not only to solve immediate problems, but also determine the direction for the future. We must show that workers are willing not only to ask his wages, but also ready to take over the management of enterprises, organized and ready to act independently. Only with such a formulation would be possible and the solution of problems.And the workers are ready? Ready to take the management of the enterprises themselves? Are you ready for an independent and organized action? And that means "ready, unprepared"? What kind of willingness to testify and the self-destructing samounichizhayuschie hunger strike? And why did sputter stick labels:Quote:Now I want to dwell on the "impracticability recommendations", as stated by AP because it is a very common view. "We need to set realistic objectives" - this argument to justify his position has always opportunists. . This position is the reformist conciliatory quite satisfied with the current government and they will always play along, talking about consensus, about unity, those for small change.This is who and where I saw in my remarks poddakivanie, talk about consensus? And on "What to do?" Lenin does not interfere with view and critically. Without piety.Nikolai Baibakov Guest
 Posted: December 25, 2005 8:16 am Post subject:
 Dear, AP, did not mean to offend you, because not talking about you, but the supporters of the compromise with the unions and the robbers prihvatizatorami, says Firmer. I agree with you that the workers are not prepared to manage the enterprise, are not ready for organized action. But it absolutely does not mean that they are not able to do so. This is the main problem of our society.While the ruling class is split, and manage work, because it is convenient and beneficial, no normal development will not be any free people will not have. It is necessary to help the workers, organized to defend their interests, then the problems of pensioners and students, and doctors, and teachers will be addressed as necessary to society.AP Guest
 Posted: December 26, 2005 7:12 am Post subject: On Trade Unions
 Nikolai Baibakov, wrote (a):Dear, AP, did not mean to offend you, because not talking about you, but the supporters of the compromise with the unions and the robbers prihvatizatorami ...Agreed. The debate may be critical and harsh in relation to the position of a party, but the gb correctly, otherwise turn into swearing to each other. I would not like.Quote:This is the main problem of our society. While the ruling class is split, and manage work, because it is convenient and beneficial, no normal development will not be any free people will not have. It is necessary to help the workers, organized to defend their interests ...I agree. Therefore, the need to conduct a serious conversation about unions. Speaking as a political organization (party) here in this topic, it is very desirable to keep in line with the "trade unions and the Party," otherwise the issue will leave the union channel.B. Guest
 Posted: December 26, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: On Trade Unions
 AP wrote (a):Then the plant must have a body like STK. It makes sense to discuss the relationship between trade union and that of the STC, if more or less seriously the recommendations.The problem is not how to legalize the will of workers to influence the affairs of the factory. The problem is, this will be the employees have, and without the organization does not appear. Suppose they do not have the organization, de jure, but the organization is de facto. Then they can have a common will and influence processes.AP Guest
 Posted: December 27, 2005 7:51 am Post subject: On Trade Unions
 Again I was misunderstood. I do not propose to create an enterprise agency, such as TCS, in order to organize the transition of enterprises to the workers. I clearly expressed doubts about the feasibility of such an idea. But I suggested poteoretizirovat just in case, if such a revolution in the enterprise was accomplished. Here then, for further management control is necessary to create a body that implements this task.Our history knows, as suggested by the state (public power) to do in the Soviet era. For a long time, until Gorbachev's perestroika, which turned out katastroykoy, the body was designed, in theory, to perform the task of management of the team, was called PDPS (constant current-production meeting.) Who remembers these things? And in the eighties, in a jet of talk about the importance of the process control contingent of employees, were bulging euphemism "collective", replacing them with the essence of the definition of "contingent". And there was an abbreviation of "STC". So I have used this newspeak 80 to identify the body, which must be created at the plant in case of realization of the ideas discussed. And then, Aware of the essence of the topic and trying not to let her out of her bed, and I offered to discuss the theoretical relationship between the designated agency with the union. Unfortunately, the topic may well deviate from the course, if you will go a long tack the idea of ​​management control.VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: December 31, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: Re: On Trade Unions
 AP wrote (a):I agree. Therefore, the need to conduct a serious conversation about unions.Since the capture of the governing bodies of employers, trade union organizations that unite citizens bound by common industrial and professional interests on the nature of their operations (the trade unions of the FNPR) is the norm, then profstroitelstve independent of the employer organizations, workers need a range of measures to ensure their independence from the employer. As I mentioned at the forum "Profucheby," the main and fundamental condition predetermining independent workers' organizations from employers, a ban on membership in their organization of representatives of the employer.What we have today? Almost all the leaders of trade union organizations - the team recruits from the Director (the ban on their trade union membership in the statutes do not FNPR). Their departure for trade union work does not reduce their dependence on the employer, on the contrary the director is doing everything to strengthen this relationship. Arsenal opportunities, and the employer is large:A. According to the current position after the expiration of the trade union position on the election returns, former manager at the beginning of the director, which position and salary, "demobilized" union leaders will, of course, depends on its fidelity to the employer during the period of work in the union.Two. Getting the leaders of trade union organizations of premiums from the director - it everyday. Without hesitation award on the basis of trade union leaders of industrial and business enterprises are written down in collective agreements. The size of the prizes is not determined by collective agreement, and the decision of the Director, which effectively uses this lever to control the trade union leaders.Three. Employers and others use the possibility of "buying" trade union leaders. Tuition fees (including children's union leaders), "service" trips union leaders, including those abroad, the provision of soft loans, etc. etc. All of the above is possible, as the statutes of trade unions in the first place, does not prohibit membership in the union representatives of the employer's employees working for the employer. Second, do not contain the ban on trade union leaders receive any benefits from the employer was.(To be continued)VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: January 7, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: On Trade Unions
 Continued (1):The capture and neutralization of the current LZhEprofsoyuzov employers are relatively easy to carry through the seizure of their governing bodies. This is possible because, unlike the statutes of the Western trade unions, providing for direct election of union leaders, statutes, for example, trade unions, members of the FNPR zakrelyayut multistage indirect elections, when members of the governing bodies are elected by the rank and file are not union members and electors. Trade union enterprises - participants of the conference of the primary trade union organizations, regional committee and its leader - the participants of the regional conference. Leaders FNPR - members of the Congress FNPR. A fundamentally different course of action in the Western trade unions:Quote:"The most important component of the stability of the union is its democratic structure - more precisely, the involvement of the rank and file trade union members in decision making. It depends, primarily, on how the elections are taking place in the union. Today the situation is such that it can be argued - in unions of England has a very popular mechanism for the election. ... Most of the trade union officials elected by secret ballot, the exclusion applies only to primary level. Officials of national or territorial level shall be elected by secret ballot, and also all members of the union. Voting takes place by mail, at the same time, of course, voting is not spending as it gets for a secret ballot vote of the first with a prepaid envelope. "See: http://trud.web.ur.ru/EnglTU.zip(To be continued)VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: February 5, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: How to prevent agents of the employer in proflidry
 Continued (2)How to prevent agents of the employer in proflidry. Do unions raise their profkadry? No, as a rule, involve trade unions for trade unionists released executives of the employer. Shop committee chairmen released, trade union committees, regional committees in the majority of elected representatives of the administration of enterprises, ie People aiming for a career manager. For most of them trade union work - an episode of their movement up the administrative ladder.How to behave in such a union temporary worker? The answer, I think, is obvious. These "union leaders" will do everything to please the employer, while posing as defenders of the interests of employees. How do you get to union leaders served the union? We must once and for all abandon the practice of bringing in the union representatives of the employer's office. Unions should raise their own shots. We need to start this work with primary-level organizations.Young trade unionists should be involved in union activities, to participate in the development of trade union decisions (in the trade union committee after the change has to be crowded), sent to study in Sunday's territorial union clubs, training centers of trade unions, to put forward at the union office. How to prepare profkadry free trade unions representatives of the employer? They can not elect a representative for office management, since managers can not be members of the free trade union. They raise their own leaders.(To be continued)Guest rough
 Posted: February 5, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:
 Nikolai Baibakov, wrote (a):It is necessary to help the workers, organized to defend their interests, then the problems of pensioners and students, and doctors, and teachers will be addressed as necessary to society.And whether we should help one to fight with other selfish egoists? Is not it better to create a system like at random http://metodt.narod.ru/, which will take into account the interests of all?Guest
 Posted: February 6, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject:
 Dear Sh! The problem is not lack of decent draft reorganization of our lives, but lack of power that can turn the tide in favor of the majority.Quote:To reverse the situation requires a strong organized pressure from the workers from trade unions, on the part of the emerging social movements - such a strong pressure, from which we are still very far. We say more: we, the people of Russia are far from understanding even the urgent need for such pressure. Many people in Russia are still hoping that somehow formed, will work out that the authorities will show, finally, the so-called political will to stop their destructive policies. This, of course, an illusion, a utopia. Do not stop and will not show on their own. Stop and show only under strong pressure "from below". Speech G.Ya.Rakitskoy, B.V.Rakitskogo at the seminar "The ideology of the labor movement and the problems of trade union unity" within the first Russian Social Forum.See http://rpr.ur.ru/article/Orpkpkso.zip So do not waste your time on development projects is yet to no one put into practice!AP Guest
 Posted: February 7, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: On Trade Unions
 I welcome this article on Rakitstkih. And not so much the content of links without challenging this view, as due to natural organic connection to this topic and article. I recall that a December 24 I stammered about it: It is better to discuss the article Rakitskiy "From the union of disparate ...". However, the topic has not died out. She still lives, and I think sooner or later, anyway, the article will be given here Rakitskiy the attention it deserves in the discussion of the problems of the trade union movement.Guest
 Posted: February 7, 2006 7:44 am Post subject:
 Anonymous wrote (a):The problem is not lack of decent draft reorganization of our lives, but lack of power that can turn the tide in favor of the majority. So do not waste your time on development projects is yet to no one put into practice!IMHO you are confused. The problem, until recently, was just the lack of a worthy project. Now there are already two - at random and "Monte-Carlo» (http://metodt.narod.ru/). So, a belated thanks for the advice to save time - searchlights have been developed, it remains to implement. A force is sufficient. Take a look around and find a lot of intelligent and decent people. You can look in the mirror. You just need a little work and organize. Of course, it would have a robust design gotovenkoe powerful social movement "from below". But then we have nothing to worry about and it would be. So we have a normal working situation.VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: February 7, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject:
 Continued (3) How to avoid accountability proflidrov employers? Submission to the employers union leaders in two classic ways - carrot and stick.Gingerbread: union leaders rewarded on the basis of the enterprise, and encourage other ways, the company pays the school union leaders, their children, takes on other expenses union leaders, company provides union leaders, their environment, domestic and other services on favorable terms. The company provides trade union leaders after the end of the revenue position of trade union power.Knut: the adoption of measures to offset the trade union leaders from his union office; unreleased firing union leaders from their positions and others, creating obstacles for the transfer of union dues, relocation of trade union committees in awkward spaces; preventing union leaders at the company's territory, etc. etc.How did all this counter? First, the union leaders should be placed under the control of ordinary members, and secondly, the statutes of trade unions should include provisions to prevent these symptoms. But the most important product - the output proliderov from enterprises on the territory.(To be continued)Guest Practitioner
 Posted: February 8, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: From rhetoric to reality!
 Generally speaking, today it is very important not only to exchange views on the state and problems of the Russian movement of employees to protect their interests, it is advisable to start collective efforts to develop strategies and tactics for the revival of an employee (improvement) of trade unions, and that is very important - to ensure their independence from employers to try to coordinate action enthusiasts to share experiences and develop new ideas into practice.Andrei BasovJoined: 12.01.2006 Posts: 8
 Posted: February 10, 2006 8:27 am Post subject:
 Actually, quite a strange situation in the trade union movement and the discourse around it. I mean the real movement for the rights of workers. It is a movement without a clear purpose. Decent wages - a sort of abstraction. Salary - this property and for some reason the movement is not advocating it as a osuschetvlyaetsya property rights. And to understand what are your property rights of the employee (and retiree, too) need to understand all peruyu two main things.A. The mechanics of infringement of property rights of the employee by the employer: http://k200.ru/k200/mnimy_trud.htmTwo. The mechanics of infringement of property rights of state employees: http://www.k200.ru/k200/kapitalizm.htm Without this, the trade union movement - it is a struggle for control with no result and no end. How can boron for something if you do not know what to demand, seek to cancel?The inventor, an analyst Peter-on-NeveuRalph Guest
 Posted: February 11, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject:
 Speaking of the strangeness of the situation in the trade union movement, which, according to Andrei Basov, has no clear goals, Basov has to defend the property rights by imposing a confused understanding of capitalist relations. It makes no sense to analyze the full article Basov, "Imaginary labor", as in the proof of the need to bring a lot of arguments and theories of excerpts from political economy, plus the huge amount of factual material. But why dwell on the highlights of capitalist production.Capitalist production is for profit on invested capital and therefore manufactured product shall be made to the market for the sale, which is already incorporated a profit, that is not part of the paid labor, but does not sound just like that. The development of the production itself is a product of capitalist desire for profit, and not its primary purpose.The owner of capital from the production, calculates how much it will need to expend funds for the organization of production, how to buy raw materials, machinery, labor, how much to pay in taxes to the State that it allowed him to engage in the exploitation of labor, and how much it will receive income after the sale of product manufactured at its production facilities.Profit occurs in the production process, where the wage-worker produces far more food than it receives in the form of wages, and is realized in the exchange process. And no matter how much the owner is not planning to get a profit, it is, at best, get as much as it owed on the capital invested, for a given productivity. The price of the manufactured product, that is, its value expressed in money, always fluctuates around its value and is not something arbitrary.In capitalist production labor acts as a commodity, whose value as determined by the cost, that is, the amount of money necessary for its reproduction in the same capacity. In the socio economic relations on the basis of existing capital, where the means of production are alienated from the manufacturer, and where personal relationships between people take the form of real, through the exchange of goods, the employee can not claim the whole product of his labor, as it is just an employee.Let Andrei Basov try, having worked for some time on someone or a company, without prior arrangement to take away part of the output, which he considers his own. And then he will be able to verify the correctness of my assertions.The balance of power between the owners of the means of production and owners of the workforce today does not allow an employee to isolate and assign the fruits of their labor, and so he had to fight for higher wages, which is the same as the price of all other commodities, fluctuates around the value. Ranges - hence deviates in either direction.The owner of the means of production workers to strive to pay as little as possible, and wage workers tend to get as much as possible. And if wage workers are not organized struggle for decent wages, then they will receive much less than the cost of their labor, since capital has long been established, and acts as a united force.Offer to pick up a working portion of the product that, to the article is very difficult to say. How can I take part, such as walking excavator, and so to organize its implementation and allocation of shares to all participants? And where is the guarantee that after the distribution of funds received wage workers will not appear on the same salary? Especially in such a situation, wage earners will have to pay part of those who will implement their part of the resulting products.So Andrei Basov proposed different methods and ways of organizing capitalist production, while preserving the rule of capital, are nothing more than a utopia, because it does not rely on the real interests and real people. Dreams! Her dream is to change the world nothing is changing, but to his perception.Andrei BasovJoined: 12.01.2006 Posts: 8
 Posted: February 11, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject:
 Ralph, you are wonderfully presented one of the stereotypical views on capitalist relations. Only now wondering out of all this your statement: "So Andrei Basov proposed different methods and ways of organizing capitalist production, while preserving the rule of capital, are nothing more than a utopia, because it does not rely on the real interests and real people." Where did you find Andrei Basov talking about different methods and techniques of capitalist production, while maintaining the rule of capital? Citation in the studio! If there is not, then what you come to criticize? Overexposure? Juggling? Your imagination? I have read carefully, if it comes down, and revolves around a single point.The reason for vozniknovniya rights to new things and, respectively, for-profit ownership of the objects is to produce, rather than involvement in the creation of new things. That's the message of capitalism there something rational behind in its nakedness. And Basov believes that the establishment of rights for new things to involvement in their creation is precisely the failure of capitalism and the "kapitalistichesogo mode of production." Why in quotes? Yes, because if something Ralph really understands prozvodstve, it comes before him, that in fact there is no capitalist and socialist modes of production.This is so ideological, economic conditionality. There is a technical way and is handmade. That's it. They do not change and can not be changed by manipulating the market and money in their pockets. So the fears that you pugete public forum simply fabricated. Only in some unhealthy imagination might think that with a change in property relations to the product of labor workers suddenly start to carve it in kind. Why would they? A? You are quite mistaken legal right to obtain income from work. What logic did you manage to screw it, for what a person goes to work (earn money) to the fact that he did not need to (make money on, such as buckets, which he does for the market)? What and why should change in production in terms of payroll on what part of the proceeds from the market, which went to the owner of private consumption will be included in the total wage bill?Ralph, my dear, for God's sake do not be offended, but it's not my confused understanding of capitalism, and you are confused by artificial confusing these relations. In a similar basis, they are very simple one follows the subsequent confusion, and not they themselves are confused. You just confused cause and effect. Here's the mess turns out. Its a lot in their heads, and theories.CAPITALIST TO RIGHTS TO NEW THINGS AND ONE SIMPLE, AND ARISING FROM HIM VERY MUCH EVERY COMPLEX, Country and ugly. Do not confuse the source of the consequences and everything will be okay. This promotion puts everything on its head, replacing the source of the consequences, even in science, to hide the source of understanding. Do not give in and be done.The inventor, an analyst Peter-on-NeveuRalph Guest
 Posted: February 12, 2006 9:47 am Post subject:
 Andrew, to be able to dispose of the newly produced product, you must be able to dispose of the means of production. And do not dispose of in an individual plan, and collectively, as the individual ownership of the means of production, of course, generate, and individual appropriation. Master the same collective means of production and use it effectively impossible technically impossible without a broad social movement.The theory of the proletarian revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat, and there is a way of collective mastery of the means of production. Why repeat the bottoms? And on the use of certain concepts you are wrong, because you think that the definitions have nothing to reflect the signs. In fact, the notion of certain phenomena reflect their essence. The essence of the formal and substantial form. So why all known and understood phenomenon called differently? Name change you will not change the essence, but only confuse everyone. And, if you want to achieve a certain result, rather than just present themselves original, then create their own as additional challenges.Guest
 Posted: February 13, 2006 1:56 am Post subject:
 Ralph, there is a caveat. The fact that all or almost all of the actions one way or another derived from the requirements. A person is taken for the work is not for the sake of ownership The funds of production. He is the possession of absolutely no reason. He needs to have access to the use of tools and nothing more. Having access and the ability to work can do anything. With yuridmcheskoe possession, does not mean that you can do something. Possession and use of an entirely different category with entirely different consequences. It concerns the creation of things.The property right itself can not create anything. It is the only condition for the right to profit itself is just a convention. From this follows a simple thing, that the possibility of creation can not change anything from what evaporates the right of private ownership of means of production. Elimination of the absoluteness of conditionality is unlikely to be affected in this case. Who should be the means of production belong to? Employees? Why are they in possession, when they only need to access the application? Treasury? For what reason? Treasury does not create them. While on the other side of them needs government patronage as a means of ensuring the viability of the state system of division of labor. I have no idea.You see, Ralph, you just can not turn away from reason, thought only of the inevitability of private property on Wed Mfr. And it may be different, and including no. Although they themselves are talking about the contradictions of today's world, where such property exists. A turn away from stereotpnogo just can not look to have a look at other opportunities. Or we have already reached the limit of possibilities and dreams? If not, then play up what is clearly becoming obsolete - traditional point of view on the issue. There is no unsolvable problem if they are not contrary to nature. There are obstacles to the solution and the inertia of thinking one of them. Why drag in here still, and the proletariat, and collective ownership.I always offer you a very simple thing to analyze. No need to oppose the disparate systems the presence and absence of profit institution. You just need to assemble a bunch of signs of such an idealized socio-economic system, what I would like to have. This will be the standard. That's compared with the standard of profitable and non-profit system. Which leads them closer to the standard, solves the problem of achieving the ideal. It is clear that there is. So what to cling to something in her grip. We must see both, but in itself, and not through the prism of what nothing else does not accept.Incidentally, the dictatorship of the proletariat only in ideology and political economy (which is almost the same) way to collective ownership Wed Mfr. In fact there is no collective ownership and does not smell. And it is in my materials. It seems that the stumbling block in the identification of legal and de facto ownership. And this is two different things. And still the question of confusion of meaning with a sense of ownership use. As well as responsibility for the safety of the owner and user. In today's ideology turns out that the possession and once it secures. And I now understand that the employee is interested in preservation, for it is the source of his existence. And he was uninterested in safety only if its earnings do not depend on the preservation tools. That is, it is not income from sales in the market, and it is now - under a contract with the owner. The owner must pay regardless of whether the employee is doing something or not. Work tools or not.Even the efficiency wage is not related to the market. The owner is obliged to provide jobs and pay, no matter what the market circumstances. Maybe we can not understand each other because I am motivated by observations and the logic of things, and you theory, where the observations are also sufficient, but the logic is not all right. And you take it on faith. That's part of the arbitrariness of the interpretation of observations of "science" has grown expert. From that and a great variety of theories. Who likes what and who will order what. For some reason the closest to the logic of Adam Smith. It seems he had an engagement on science. Customers had not yet matured. O Lord, our offenses, serious ...Guest
 Posted: February 13, 2006 2:16 am Post subject:
 Ralph, here's another tooth material is amateur. Denies. Just look closely. No need to criticize what they do not have to speak of. http://www.k200.ru/k200/kommunizm.htmAP Guest
 Posted: February 13, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: On Trade Unions
 Everything. The Communists spammed topic. Few of them by the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, about the money, the workers councils, appeals to friendship. In the end, there is a philosophical issue. No, it is necessary to the idea of ​​the dictatorship of the proletariat, the proletarian revolution persistently climb in trade unions, to the Unionists. Communist ideology and the unions are incompatible. Like any utopia is incompatible with the realities of life. Vladimir correctly raises the question of the need to remove from the union (or rather of those structures that are not being trade unions, such adverb) of representatives of the Governors.But the Communists, on Lenin's orders, all dragged us into the class of managers. For the orders of our LZhEprofsoyuzy and these are fake ... Everything - the workers. So, let's trade unions and workers' management. Had seen enough. The investigation - tsehkom sends to the court a witness in defense of the position of the administration against the repression of its work.Or again: profaktivist declares that the union is not a partisan organization to protect their members, claiming his duty to be objective. None of the workers' really does not connect to that part of the union theme, which endeavor to expand Vladimir. No offer him all the Utopia farm enterprises. How long to walk around with a 75-year cycle?Yuri Vinogradov Guest
 Posted: February 14, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: Is the trade unions!
 First it was workers' control. He intermeddle in the affairs of the owners, employers, and instructed them to spend money on salaries, but did not capitalize. With the help of workers 'control, Lenin destroyed the imperial economy and after the revolution unleashed by the trade unions, workers' control (merged them). Managers was not up to the controls and the professions - they have to fight for the seat. The economy was free from control and earned (NEP et seq.) In the new role of trade unions is high. They make sure that the Kremlin, after 17 hours of light and grad officers went from house to house. That is why during rush hour traffic stops - the servants of the people protected by the union, moved to Moscow with the motorcade. It was Stalin who worked past midnight, and read letters from citizens and directors. With the participation of Stalin's solved a lot of personal and operational issues (briefly - Stalin was at Meakin not spend as he read the letter).Putin taught to say one thing and doing another officials. Putin flies, swims, shoots, but does not read the letters (once a year organize the show with his participation in the known responses to irrelevant questions). The union officials concerned about their safety and health officials, because the procedure worked, and actions of the "second line" as Reshele from the King did not answer in the form of action. Union officials' need the obedient Putin, who leave home at 17 o'clock and letters and newspapers (especially the laws, for example, tax) do not read!VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: February 15, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:
 Continued (4)... Employer and the employee in the market did not meet as equal partners. The entrepreneur, hiring or firing an employee, directly addresses the question of his material existence, while the dismissal of an employee shall in no way threatens the welfare of the employer. Due to the voluntary signing of the tenancy agreement the illusion of mutual independence and equality of partners, which obscures the benefit of the employer, arising out of real life working conditions: the latter is forced to compete with others in the workplace, and daily earn food, clothing and shelter.The balance of power between individual employees and employers in reality does not exist. Therefore employees to improve their positions need strong trade unions. Frank Hoffer. TRADE UNIONS AND COUNCILS ENTERPRISES. Representing the interests of employees in a social market economy in Germany. Friedrich Ebert Foundation. Moscow Office Magazine "POLICY" ("Political Studies"). Moscow - 1993 / see: http://trud.web.ur.ru/Hoffer.zip (to be continued)VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: February 18, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject:
 Continued (5)... interests of employers and workers have been and remain opposed. This contradiction is the basis of the desire for power for the realization of their interests at the expense of the other party. In the past, the realization of power and interests of the employer was given easier, thanks to the successful use of the principle of "divide and conquer." The number of "free" peasants and bursting at the will of the apprentices was as great as the pursuers of their work, social and economic need. In this situation the employer has not missed an opportunity not to drive a wedge between the worker and his colleagues.As a result, workers have found a means of exerting strong cohesive resistance to employers, catching combining their interest in collective bargaining agreements. This step marked the beginning of the practice of fixing the working conditions and wages. Tariff agreement gained the role of means contributing to the elimination of exploitation and class struggle of employers. This is its function and still not lose its value. Wilfried Schaefer. Wage agreement. To help interested. Dusseldorf, 1990, see http://trud.web.ur.ru/Shefer.zip (to be continued)
  Andrei BasovJoined: 12.01.2006 Posts: 8
 Posted: February 23, 2006 9:06 am Post subject:
 Vladimir wrote (a):... While the dismissal of an employee shall in no way threatens the welfare of the employer ...As it is, like it like this? If not in any way threatened, why did he hire them? Do not be hired and everything. Trouble is not with this narodishkom. Perhaps the author confuses the personalized face - concrete worker working with the carrier - any generic worker. Yes, the owner of a particular employee can not do without. As well as an employee, without the owner concretized. But the owner can not do without an employee in general, as a performer - the business would collapse. Here he is dismissing one immediately takes another. No wonder the workers are struggling with shtreyhbreherstvom that could interfere to protect the rights of workers.But rather curious parsley in the fight for the rights of workers. Strike a powerful tool, but more like psychology. Yes, the hosts go to ustpki sometimes. And sometimes do not go, and take into submission. After the strike - it is not only the absence of profits from the owner, but the earnings of workers. The owner is not comparable resources above for waiting and failure to meet the requirements.That's why I say that the struggle for workers' rights should be transferred to the plane, where these rights are being violated and are violated, they are not the owner, and laws. Just the owner enjoys the opportunity afforded him by the laws "pinch" of their employees. It does not violate the rights of the workers (they simply do not have, but only the appearance), and implementing anti-labor law, which gives it a law. Do you understand?All rights of any movement for workers from janitors to scientists and intentionally and deliberately led away in the direction of where and how they mgli be solved. Imposed on an endless and hopeless struggle for the sake of fighting. That's why I suggested that to understand the issue of workers' rights to know where his feet are growing problems among workers.: Http://www.k200.ru/k200/kapitalizm.htmInstead, either silent, or some kind of "criticism" of a mixture of demagoguery and ideology, not having anything to do with very specific question posed to anti-national fraud laws on property rights of labor.The inventor, an analyst Peter-on-NeveuVladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: February 23, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject:
 Continued (6)In fact, the employer dictates the employee onerous conditions of employment, relying not on law but on the right of the strong.The employer brazenly throws: Do not - like, go away!This is confirmed by the shadow employment, where there is no place relationship. Because the dismissal of one or more employees when the company employed thousands, the employer will not create problems, but problems arise for those laid off - they lose their income. And with unemployment system - is a real threat to the welfare of unemployed.That is why the workers are forced to form unions and to compel the employer to conclude a collective agreement, thus ensuring better conditions and pay, threatening to stop the work of most employees of the company (industry, country), ie actually endangering the welfare of the employer. Only in this case, the employer is forced to go, and makes concessions.That's why workers need strong unions. But not only in the collective agreements employees can work together to consolidate the best of conditions and wages. For sufficiently strong and influential trade union movement securing the interests of employees can be carried out in the legislation.(To be continued)
  VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: February 26, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject:
 Continuation of (7)Rescue of drowning - the handiwork of drowning. This formula gives an answer to the question of who should attend to the creation of these unions. But the second question is how the real trade unions to create? Prompt people to establish new trade unions, trade unions, without heads? And what about the already existing organizations? Leave them and start from scratch? Contain here and there? Statutes FNPR's TV dual membership of trade unions is prohibited. And if you leave, you can be without the opportunity to influence the comrades who still considering.The experience of creating free trade unions in 90 of the last century has shown that the establishment of a militant organization of selected activists, without a comprehensive technical resource professionals and serious material base, sooner or later leads to their isolation in the community and the gradual extinction of the organization.How can that be? It would be advisable to use the resources of different people, not dividing them ready for serious combat, and just beginning to realize that something is rotten in the existing trade unions. But it is necessary to find some form of cooperation and interaction of all these raznoprodvinutyh, but concerned about the need to reform the union people.Such an organization is, in my opinion, can be movement of citizens of Russia for a strong, independent trade unions of employers. What are the advantages of this form of joint efforts of workers in this important area?A. Nobody needs to leave the existing trade unions. But we can agree on the actions and tactics of the transformation of the existing trade unions in a truly independent of the employers organization.Two. It is easy to combine the resources of all interested people to reflect on the current situation and develop strategies and tactics of the reformatting of trade unions, their reorganization, etc.Three. You can bring people in, to overcome professional and industry divisions. Limited until these three points.(To be continued)MymoonJoined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 6
 Posted: March 30, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject:
 Quote:Nobody needs to leave the existing trade unions.The thing is the essence of things. What was called the union, it is not always in fact, quite the contrary - antiprofsoyuz. In this case, the output is required, not only out, but the exposure and punishment! And not to discredit the povadno was a good idea. But the whole difficulty lies in the practical part. There is no culture of protection, a positive experience for employees. Hence, political inertia and conformism. Those who managed to get hold of something apart. What could be hurt in this case??VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: March 31, 2006 6:09 am Post subject:
 Correct to say: Nobody needs to leave the existing trade unions individually and quietly. Your individual and a quiet exit from lzheprofsoyuza people may not notice, but the bosses will take you to the note.The problem lies elsewhere: be quiet, without noise and loud organize mass exits from lzheprofsoyuzov and form unions without bosses. For example, as a base, see http://www.uraltradeunion.ru/news.html?989MymoonJoined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 6
 Posted: March 31, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject:
 Not a union, you have to make it work, standing firmly on its feet. In this regard, dilettantism is inappropriate, you need professional legal advice. And one or two of winning the case is not an indicator immediately earn bureaucracy and outsiders zamnut. Against a highly organized system is needed not less highly organized system. And where did it take you to the open field.P. S. For ssylochku thank you very informativeGluhovVI Forum AdminJoined: 29.09.2005 Posts: 12
 Posted: April 1, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject:
 Nowhere to take such a system! It can only create, but you need resources, especially human resources. Without broad public support and active participation in the work of interested people will not work.Here's how experts assess the situation - the material on "Polituchebe" was posted 21/10/05: G.Ya.Rakitskaya, B.V.Rakitsky. "From the union of disparate professional political class self-organization" http://rpr.ur.ru/article/Orpkpkso.zip I think this article may serve as a good starting point for the development of calibrated strategy and tacticsMymoonJoined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 6
 Posted: April 2, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject:
 I do not understand that you are so attracted to this article? I personally see any in this article of value only in the headline. And then ... In the beginning given the subjective psevdoanaliz objective reality, it is based on the appropriate deductions are made. All this can be initially mistaken for another error, if it were not for one thing.All of these construing the most organic way to line up a system of self-destruction of Russian civil society. And then, the strategy and tactics for what? Your axiological values ​​is very abstract and contradictory, however, as a political platform and ideology. With this abstraction can wander endlessly in the philosophical wilderness without any application result. What is your driving force, for which you have created this site?KlarkJoined: 28.10.2005 Posts: 62
 Posted: April 3, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject:
 Mymoon, well, you're a philosopher! I felt it right away. Bison is a real desk. Indeed, that discuss and analyze any article when you can just say its subjectivity, and that put a cross. Yes, that's just one snag that any assessment of objective reality is subjective, but this is, incidentally, does not detract from the significance of these estimates. Link to objectivity, the subjective perception of intractable, gives you a sophist of the Soviet school of philosophy. And do not even philosophical, and sikofantskoy. They are fully applied this technique, accusing his opponents of subjectivism. It's like they are always objective and accurately, because behind them were prison guards, in support of their objectivity.And how do you bear with! "All this can be initially mistaken for another error, if it were not for one thing. (Here, apparently, all of your wisdom? This - BUT) All these construing the most organic way to line up a system of self-destruction of Russian civil society. " What kind of "construing" a gentleman Mymoon!Not "construing" destroy civil society, you are our desk, and permissiveness officials and oligarchs brazenly and with impunity, robbing the Russian people. "And then, the strategy and tactics for what?" To fight for their rights and interests. For Freedom! For you, this is not enough? You write: "Your axiological values ​​is very abstract and contradictory, however, as a political platform and ideology. With this abstraction can wander endlessly in the philosophical wilderness without any application result. " Whose - it is "your"? And what is the "axiological values"? Axia gr. value + ...} logic - a philosophical system of values. And you write - axiological tsennosi, that is, the philosophical system of values ​​values.After this you say gibberish about abstract political platform and ideology, not even the notation of the platform! The true philosopher, and in general any more or less familiar with the logic knows that the system can be refuted only by her own statements, not on the principle of pay detractors, shouting from the gate - all bad, all the nonsense. And then wondering about the driving force and the sense of creating the site?I understand that all these conclusions are designed for your untrained person. In fact, to convince visitors that there is nothing interesting, and can not be, but even more so for practical life. Trying in vain. On this site people come who are not caught with chaff, and with your cheap tricks, here you can not meddle. Socialize with their peers. It will be for you and cheaper and nicer.MymoonJoined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 6
 Posted: April 4, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject:
 Oh, let your imagination run wild. How many people on the Internet lopuhnulos, representing a cluster of characters that a particular person! Your mind plays a trick with you. Let's just on the merits. Of course, I had no intention of completing the general conclusion to give up on the subject. Article big, and before you start discussing it, we would like to know the enemy (or potential allies). Dialectic. Painfully, I do not want to be noisy nightingale solo on a pig farm. That kind modern Zarathustra. Therefore, the shape of the debate - the dialectic.You, dear Klark, is absolutely right in asserting that any individual assessment of objective reality is subjective. However, objective evaluation consists of analysis of the subjective evaluations, just as a constructed obscheutverditelnoe judgment - if all S are P, then obscheutverditelnoe proposition is true.A true researcher must be over estimates representatives of the classes of antagonists, but not in one of these groups. Only then can we get more or less objective view and thus more effectively to influence the objective reality. And your accusation of my membership sikofanstvu (sycophant - donositel, slanderer), general looks like complete nonsense.I expressed my general opinion is ready to defend it on the items and do not cost me any security structures ... If you and as you see in some way incomprehensible to me, the connection between my statement and political repression in relation to you, dear Klark, I assure you, this statement is completely unfounded. On the contrary, I am in the same subject, suffering from political repression, as you are. And it is not clear which of us is subjected to repression more. Instead of waving his fists, is not it better to listen to the arguments? With all due respect, despite the fact that the most stubborn people in their self-destructive actions, I can not believe that this area is a place for bringing people together, verbally affirm universal values, but in fact an active gene which make the destruction of civil society, of its own society, which they are members who use its material and spiritual values, his patronage and protection from internal and external aggressors.I argued and argued that the article Rakitskiy "From the union of disparate professional political class self-organization" laid the mine self-destruction of the Russian civil society. But as the authors are not present, discuss, find an article until a few unethical and impractical task. It is much wiser to have a dialogue with opponents present here, sharing the abstracts submitted, the points of denying them or making sure of their own mistakes. In the dialectical argument is not lost, because the purpose of the dispute - the definition of truth, is not it? So, we go further:Quote:What kind of "construing" a gentleman Mymoon!I will explain. Any State may, at a certain moment in history is based on ideology. In the Russian Federation, the ideology of the political system is defined in the Constitution adopted nationwide. But any ideology is constructed of reasoning. Construing the building material of ideology.Dear Klark, do you have anything against any of the provisions of the Constitution of the Russian Federation. Explain. I personally have nothing against the Constitution does not have, and not because I am terribly law-abiding citizen, but because they share the ideology of this document. In particular: Article 97 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation 1. State Duma may be a citizen of the Russian Federation, aged 21 years and who has the right to vote. And here's a quote from the article Rakitskiy:Quote:Trade unions and workers ... parliamentary parties to the masses just to anything. It must be clearly understood. The political organization of working and exploited classes are desperately needed, but not in order to advance to the members of several of its membersTip of professional analysts! In other words, God forbid you, gentlemen, trade unionists to promote their representatives in the legislature, having the real law-making and managerial responsibilities. A better enjoy a creation of political parties, with the abstract possibilities, gradually turning into an empty talking shop. Yes, and it is better if they (parties) will be larger, they will be colored and fluffy.In this case the State Duma called bourgeois indiscriminately. The people support! Divide and conquer. Such "bad advice" from a series of Grigory Oster crammed the entire article. You can take any paragraph, where I can even give you a head start, Mr Klark, and everywhere you can clearly identify the structural logic thread, against the protection of civil rights and liberties of individual citizens and their organizations. Or do you think it should be?There is nothing to protect citizens. As King said, so be it. He's big, he knows better ... Only here's the thing after all, in power, the more you eat, the more you want. Social conflict is accumulated and growing, and in the end there is no other way but by force of his resolution. Here's a primer for the food for thought about the article.Quote:Not "construing" destroy civil society, you are our desk, and permissiveness officials and oligarchs brazenly and with impunity, robbing the Russian people.Here, you, dear Klark, did not even argue with me, and with biblical truths. In the beginning was the word. The rest came later. You are narrow-minded perceive objective reality, without taking into account the historical origins of society.Human society is divided between those who govern and those who submit, ie The power has always existed, and always sought to strengthen their enslavement and those who ran it. Previously, they were slave owners and slaves, and then feudal lords and the peasants, the bourgeoisie and the working class, now the list of classes added to the class of bureaucracy. There has been a shift of the concept of a bureaucrat - this is no longer a person reports to his superiors, and the person directly managing all and sundry, including his nominal "head", by combining into a single state machine, a very complicated machine, with the current formation and functioning of the institution .This is not just a car - it is generally accepted social outlook. Remove one of the bureaucrat, it will take place once the other. Remove all the bureaucrats, and then the new state bureaucracy will be up to repeat the previous one. Therefore, the force is not appropriate. Intelligence wins power. But our society has come to an understanding of the current ideology of inferiority, have the same "new" in economic terms, a more advanced democratic ideology.The difficulty lies only in the mechanical transfer of culture can not be a civilization on another culture. Requires judgment in the context of the overall culture of the genesis of civilization. And not just a reflection, and a quick understanding of the phenomena of social life, otherwise civilization threatened with death, like the Inca civilization.Permissiveness officials and oligarchs brazenly and with impunity, robbing the Russian people springs from the loss of a culture of protection of society from the actions of authorities. Earlier in the Soviet Union, the function performed by the state, represented by the party organs. Time is now sufficiently fulfills this function is not one at all. The Company stores the contradictions and ready to explode at any minute from the inside. And the intelligentsia thinks about the meaninglessness of revolutions, resembling the social animal.As for the phrase "axiological values," You, dear Klark, far right. I confess, it was not intentional, but rather by instinct. As unionists, I often have to deal with the substitution of concepts related to misunderstanding the audience incomprehensible foreign words and abbreviations. In this case, I duplicated the meaning of the word in Russian. Please accept my apology. Especially because kazusnye phrases occur not only in my short speech, but also in the above article, such great professionals Rakitskiy analysts, such as non-political trade unions.According Rakitskiy those unions that do not interact with the political parties of the socialist or social-democratic orientation, and do not interact with the mass movements of the class. Perhaps the more absurd comments and can not currently imagine.Not a single person living in a society is not free from politics. He either agrees with it or disagree, or disagree, but partially. Even retired from society, a person is thus a political stance. What can we say about such organizations as trade unions, when people come together not for industrial or commercial objectives, and to protect or vice versa, creating barriers to protect workers' rights?Of course, the union, for whatever purpose he created, he is successful or not successful, or interact with someone thinks it superfluous, a political organization. In reality, the current union is a school of education of the true democratic values. In this sense it has no equal. And what is this party such a social-democratic orientation? Rubricon helpfully can provide ssylochku http://www.rubricon.com/qe.asp?qtype=4&rq=4&id=102&aid = {DBB933F2-AB38-47DF-AA6A-DEAF4B824871} Social Democratic Party, it is the Communist Party of the Soviet Union ( Communist Party) political party in 1898-1991. Vela history of the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party (RSDLP), based at the 1st Congress (1898, Minsk). The final shape at the 2nd Congress (1903, Brussels, London), which adopted the party program (minimum program included the overthrow of the autocracy, the establishment of the republic, the introduction of an 8-hour workday, the elimination of the remnants of serfdom, equality of nations and their right to self-determination ... We must assume today its program at least the overthrow of the bourgeois government of Vladimir Putin, and what's next?So, what distinguished Klark, I think, a thoughtful reader will be able to figure out who is hu, and for what it is you happen to suddenly become selfless after the "revelations" have decided to rid of me.KlarkJoined: 28.10.2005 Posts: 62
 Posted: April 5, 2006 10:38 am Post subject:
 "Oh, let your imagination run wild. How many people on the Internet lopuhnulos, representing a cluster of characters that a particular person! Your mind plays a trick with you. " Thank you, Mr. Mymoon, for the tip. I then really took you for a person, for the armchair scientist bison, and you is not a person. You, as I understood, loud-voiced nightingale, solo on a pig farm and certainly not a modern Zarathustra. You they seem not to be. I hope you will tell visitors that it is you suddenly wanted to solo on a pig farm? What a wild ambitions? And it would be interesting to know: you do not accidentally fall family Thorn Birds, or they are your masters? The truth and the nightingale is some strange turns. With an undeveloped schoolgirl tendencies, a young coquette, as eloquently makes clear the top of your message: "Oh, stop ...".Yeah, no, Nightingale singing on a pig farm, we leave you now can not because people love all kinds of stories, jokes, unusual, and the ugly, and always brings down the shaft to look at it, and the nightingale solo in the barn for them is very interesting and attractive phenomenon. Yes, and subject to a split personality. "I expressed the general opinion is ready to defend it on the items and do not cost me any security structures ...". He expressed his general opinion! Thank you ... How many of you, hiding behind a nickname - Mymoon?Maybe you nightingale does not have to go to the site and to see a doctor? And even if you, as we have learned from your recent posts are subject to suffering, and not man: "... I'm in the same subject, suffering from political repression ...", you do need to take care of oneself. Of course, I would like dealing with a person, not some android, even if it exists in the form of a nightingale. In addition, more and singing out of tune."However, objective evaluation consists of analysis of the subjective evaluations, just as a constructed obscheutverditelnoe judgment - if all S are P, then obscheutverditelnoe proposition is true. A true researcher must be over estimates representatives of the classes of antagonists, but not in one of these groups. Only then can we get more or less objective view and thus a more effective impact on the objective reality. "Objective assessment is formed not only from the analysis of subjective evaluations, but also from personal feelings, personal experience. In his perception of the person receives objective information about the world around him. If our doubts about the nightingale in his feelings, then do not try if he try to break through the concrete wall head to make sure the correct perception of the world.Our nightingale turns out, is still true, and the researcher who "scientific" community by representatives of the towers over the subjective class of antagonists, and imagines that he manages. It imagines, as the driving, not being in it, much easier than to influence the objective reality, not expressing certain specific interests of individual classes and groups.But the nightingale would not understand, because it is not out of the predetermined nature of necessity, it is the unconscious part of nature, but nature does not exist in the class relations. Therefore, our android, which exists in the form of a nightingale, and sings songs such primitive. "Any State may, at a certain moment in history is based on ideology. In the Russian Federation, the ideology of the political system is defined in the Constitution adopted nationwide. But any ideology is constructed of reasoning. Construing the building material of ideology. "Sir, Mymoon, masquerading as the nightingale, no one else and will never repeat such nonsense, and that in fact may be a fool, and had called. And better ask a moderator, that he removed from your message of these proposals. If you had bothered to get acquainted with the serious scientific work, have tried to self-assess the existing relationship, then we could understand that the state represents the interests of the ruling class and the interests of the ruling class are the ideological basis of the state. The state is based not on ideology but on the interests and strive to present their ideology as a general. And throw this stupid expression - "construing" no one and nothing is clear.According to your statement there can be any ideology, any time, it all depends on "construing". A "construing" depends, apparently, from the digestive system, or the weather. That is how we eat and the first m .. And then we convert these sounds into signs and put them in a special paper called the Constitution, which we call ideology.Yes! Nightingale penetrated deeply into the mysteries of our Constitution. "I personally have nothing against the Constitution I do not know - tell us Mymoon, - and not because I am terribly law-abiding citizen, but because they share the ideology of this document. In particular: Article 97 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation 1. State Duma may be a citizen of the Russian Federation, aged 21 years and who has the right to vote. "Academic nightingale would not hurt to know that in our state before exercise their constitutional rights to vote and be elected to the State Duma, it is necessary to fulfill the law of parties. That alone says that the Constitution we have - this is just a piece of paper where written requests are not binding. Can we have a nightingale, and the party? On this, apparently, he tells us separately. Then all very amusing picture emerges: the party nightingale singing in the barn, in defense of the State Duma. "At the same time the State Duma called bourgeois indiscriminately."However, if the scientist has analyzed Nightingale emerged from the bowels of the State Duma of the laws, then I would not argue that the current State Duma called bourgeois indiscriminately. Only our Nightingale scholar, not only does not wish to engage in real analysis, but also assigns Rakitskiy their fabrications. "You can take any paragraph, where I can even give you a head start, Mr Klark, and everywhere you can clearly identify the structural logic thread, against the protection of civil rights and liberties of individual citizens and their organizations."Rakitskiy, in his article, just shows how really can and should the oppressed classes to protect their rights and freedoms, not to engage in fictions that it was impossible not to see. Only a scientist Robin, spewing primitive statements, did not want to see this. Who, I ask, and explain that such statements as: "The government has always existed, and always sought to strengthen their enslavement, and those whom she ran," "No man, living in a society is not free from politics", or empty talk about bureaucracy? I hope this is enough to understand who is hu.And do I have you, Mr. Nightingale scholar, not trying to rid of, and is even ready to ask you to come to this site, all will be happier.MymoonJoined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 6
 Posted: April 5, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: New Greek tale
 After Goliath was broken, his body crumbled his unfortunate caterpillar bulldozer, then 20-ton compactor roll it across the street, the remains of between 5 and 25 of the house, pancake was collected, again finely milled, passed through a meat grinder, and finally burned ashes, ashes of a sudden there was an accident ghostly hand. Suddenly, she grabbed a light whisk, and grabbed a handful of ashes in. Lightweight cotton, and ... Oh Gods. A miracle happened! Before us stands the legendary Goliath again. He was, as always full of energy, its pace shakes the earth, his cry rends the top of the neighboring mountains, and his eyes ... The eyes, like two thermonuclear explosion instantly incinerates any mere mortal, leaving only a shadow on the stone walls. No, words are powerless to describe this power, this violent force, suggestive chilling horror on the heels of a bygone soul. Need to see this scene, you feel your liver to the blood boil of the surging adrenaline. And therefore, without wasting time for nothing, go to a look at the nearest market, and urgently, urgently hear, buy a DVD movie by Wolfgang Peterson's "Troy", put in the player, connect to the fullest sound Dolbi Surround, and feel that it is impossible to describe the no words! - Palagry! - Exclaimed the king. And here it is! It is easy to order the soldiers pushing, as if a knife pierces the soft butter, "Frame" on the field there is a figure unimaginable size, Trojan Goliath, in person ... But what is it? The crowd was silent, staring morosely from under his brows at the miraculously resurrected hero, the idol of yesterday, terrifying the whole sublunary world. Oh yes, of course. Still fresh in the memory inglorious defeat. Just one stroke of a giant cast a giant in the dust, turned into a powerless, motionless hulk, and anyone, anyone could come up, kick and spit on the mountain of useless flesh. The gods, having created such a monstrous killing machine, did not care about the main thing, to put into it a grain of reason. Senseless war, they thought, and therefore the mind combat vehicle is not needed. Oh, how wrong they were. Reason - these are the most terrible killing machine controlled and guided by an unknown force. And Goliath, ugh ... even giving him a perpetual resurrection, it is not more than bychara doomed to slaughter, sacrifice a creature that for the amusement of the audience enters the scene again and again, and then turns into our food, beef on our tables. What a joy to be a bull? What a sadomasochistic tendency to experience again and again, when you are being crucified for the amusement of the crowd? Matters of purely rhetorical. The animal always an animal, and is used only for the purpose for which he created the gods.Presumably, blinded by rage Klark take back everything at face value and lead like a bull at a red rag, accuse me of megalomania, morbid imagination, and still do not know what mental disorders. Just as a drowning man clutching at straws, Klark trying to grasp the mist of their views, heaps of idioms, and is a pitiful sight. Social animal, caught in a trap. Who has what hurts, he says, and that owner presses, and do not mind. The greater the flutter, the more adheres. After all of the questions on the merits, Klark did not respond to nonsense clings, nonsense answers. Klark, well, look at yourself in the mirror, what do you fucking Palagry?Internet a tool, it can be used be anyone, anywhere, anytime. Let the fools like Klarka, Baidu underway on this, this, they only reveal their identity. Why do I need an animal? I was at the farm to anything, to the same strange, highly paid (by the way, gentlemen hosts, you may have noticed that overpay?).So sit down, my dear Mr. Klark, on the bench for a week, say, calm down, relax, look, sound ideas can emerge. In the end, humanity is not a stranger to me.VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 16
 Posted: April 6, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject:
 Article G.Ya.Rakitskaya, B.V.Rakitsky. "From the union of disparate professional political class self-organization" (see http://rpr.ur.ru/article/Orpkpkso.zip), in my opinion, can indeed serve as a starting point for developing strategy and tactics of those who result of the economic "perestroika" was no genocide of civilized working conditions, decent wages and income levels, guarantees full and productive employment, a civilized system of social protection, social insurance and pensions. That, in my opinion, certainly in the article? This, above all, truthful assessment of the current situation in Russia and forecast of its development, if, as the authors write, "the relation of social forces in the country will not change":Quote:in Russia to finalize and entrenched system of relations peripherally-colonial capitalism, political power with the performance of the functions of the colonial administration. Characteristic features of the system (the five main features):1) The beggarly wages of the majority of employees employed in the absence of an effective system of state social security, protecting workers from the risks of poverty, unemployment, illiteracy, homelessness, etc.;2) with respect to the safe position of a minority of wage workers - those employed in export industries, TNCs (in these sectors will be relatively high wages, protection against social risks enterprise systems);3) a high level of long-term unemployment, displacement of the majority of the population in the social reservation (in the "social bottom");4) The criminalization of social, labor and all social relations;5) the constant and real danger of a totalitarian dictatorship of the allegations of political (fascist) type degraded by relying on the mass of the population.Further, the authors make an indisputable conclusion:Quote:To reverse the situation requires a strong organized pressure from the workers from trade unions, on the part of the emerging social movements.And more:Quote:Many people in Russia are still hoping that somehow formed, will work out that the authorities will show, finally, the so-called political will to stop their destructive policies. This, of course, an illusion, a utopia. Do not stop and will not show on their own. Stop and show only under strong pressure "from below".MymoonJoined: 30.03.2006 Posts: 6
 Posted: April 7, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject:
 Bravo, Vladimir! Question directly to the topic - that is indisputable in the article? Indisputable facts. That fact influenced by the subjective consciousness, based on their personal experience of the soil every member of society, they are a reference point of the formation of public philosophy. But the facts can teach in the most unexpected aspects, sometimes conflicting, and the real state of things. In this case, you, Vladimir, a few hurried, pulling a quote out of context, which is slightly distorts its meaning:Quote:If the alignment, the relation of social forces in the country will not change, it finally took shape in Russia ...The logical structure of the sentence suggests that it is an assertion (estimate), and condition, as a result of that, something will or will not. Rakitskiy here say nothing and do not appreciate, but merely put forward a conditional hypothesis. Well, how can anyone know exactly what will and what will not, alone, relying only on the bare facts, without doing any research, that is, not answering the questions: What happened? Why there? What are the other trends? And what is this hypothesis? "... In Russia to finalize and entrenched system of relations peripherally-colonial capitalism, political power with the performance of the functions of the colonial administration."This hypothesis is based on five supposedly unique to the characteristics of this phenomenon. Signs, everywhere really happening throughout the country. Pay special attention to these five characteristics. They are typical not only for peripherally-colonial capitalism, but also for the primary, wild capitalism, with the primary crime of initial capital accumulation (initial capitalism in general). What is the difference between these two concepts? They lie in different planes, the concept of peripherally-colonial capitalism goes to the global plane of one of the local capitalist states, and the initial concept of capitalism is, excuse me, in the original plane represented by five signs, the plane of domestic issues, domestic social origin.This is a typical logical fallacy, described in the literature, it is enough to open a book of logic, and refresh the forgotten material. Imagine Pythagoras, jumps from one plane to another, proving the theorem of an equilateral triangle. Meanwhile, what is obvious in the geometry is not so evident in the voice constructions. We are rarely reminded of the laws of logic in everyday life, which is reflected in the culture of our logical thinking. I accidentally touched upon initial capitalism, highlighting it from the total, but it is too early to draw any conclusions. Later, if you want. Here I would like to draw attention to one salient point of perception above logic error. Thus, Kant wrote: "The man feels the strong influence of culture, namely, it defines the boundaries of knowledge, leads to deviate from its natural state. But in the moral consciousness of man can escape from the clutches of culture and maintain their self."Hammer of our culture is very great, and self-awareness is very low. Through the media, through a public institution on everyone's lips estimate of economists, even the president, the position of Russia as a raw materials appendage to the economy of Western countries. This thesis is extrapolated in a curved form in the area of ​​social relations. And we shall be void sumnyashesya it is acceptable, because we trust the president, serious economists, and heard a familiar term, we accept on faith the synthesized Rakitskiy hypothesis ... The bottom line:A. Intentionally or not, Rakitskiy make a false assessment of the phenomena.Two. From the false premise can not be done the right conclusions. And what is valuable in this case? Smoothed, pomaded facts of our daily lives? Yes, it's just marking time, trying to divert away from the real solution to the problem.KlarkJoined: 28.10.2005 Posts: 62
 Posted: April 8, 2006 8:07 am Post subject:
 On the pitiable pitiful ... Mymoon! Again, you (since you are there a lot, as you assured me) appeared on the site, to sing their stupid songs. As you can see its essence will not hide. Scientist Robin, who imagines that he can be anyone, anytime, quickly turned into angry and stupid woman sophistry, and dumped a bunch of swear words on the site, and all the words of scholars fell off as chaff. In fact, wherever he went, he always shows his fucking entity (the entity Goethe has appeared as a black dog) greed for money and his ass's ears, false teaching, he will not hide. That's what we sang, in his last message, this multi-faceted features, introduced himself in the image of the nightingale.Quote:That fact influenced by the subjective consciousness (objective consciousness does not exist. Objective and total consciousness - it is God) on the basis of their personal experience is constructed every member of society, they are a reference point of the formation of public philosophy. But the facts can teach in the most unexpected aspects, sometimes conflicting, and the real state of things. (The facts do not contradict the actual state of things, but a perverse interpretation, whether or not a correct understanding of reality itself, as well as conscious and perversion, as do various Mymoon may create the appearance of such conflicts). In this case, you, Vladimir, a few hurried, pulling a quote out of context, which is slightly distorts its meaning:Out of this proposal can clearly be seen that Mymoon strive not find out the truth, and vilify and defame all those with whom he encounters. (Vladimir hastened, foolishly trying to convince readers that the sophist) Quote: If the alignment, the relation of social forces in the country will not change, it finally took shape in Russia ...Quote:The logical structure of the sentence suggests that it is an assertion (estimate), and condition, as a result of that, something will or will not. Rakitskiy here say nothing and do not appreciate, but merely put forward a conditional hypothesis.Here Mymoon began pulling out of the context of Article separate proposals to provide the article itself, as science is not wealthy.Quote:Well, how can anyone know exactly what will and what will not, alone, relying only on the bare facts, without doing any research, that is, not answering the questions: What happened? Why there? What are the other trends?A person can always be traced clearly establish a causal relationship or that phenomenon, and on the basis of this knowledge can very definitely say that if he will plant seeds and grow a cabbage sprouts, but not garlic. In social development, as well as in nature, as there are stable causal links that allow you to predict and anticipate the onset of one or another phase of the movement of society. This is just screaming obscenities nightingale all unknown and uncertain, as his science, and it is not interested. And what is this hypothesis? "- Supposedly analyzes Mymoon-... in Russia to finalize and entrenched system of relations peripherally-colonial capitalism, political power with the performance of the functions of the colonial administration." This hypothesis is based on five supposedly unique to the characteristics of this phenomenon. Signs, everywhere really happening throughout the country. Pay special attention to these five characteristics. They are typical not only for peripherally-colonial capitalism, but also for the primary, wild capitalism, with the primary crime of initial capital accumulation (initial capitalism in general). (In capital accumulation was the primary crime, and later he became white and fluffy, is trying to convince us to the nightingale. As clearly seen in this context, the desire of the hoof of the nightingale, to lead a conversation with a discussion of the reality in the region of vague false teachings. And he sings:Quote:"... The global plane of one of the local capitalist states, and the notion of basic capitalism remains in the plane of the domestic issues, domestic social origins."And then all this heap of idiotic statements that do not make sense to refute the conclusion of a logical error, which will not allow a student and a freshman. And Pythagoras and Kant simply been tacked on here, just for the weight, which seek to give themselves and their fabrications, this crook. Crook who tries to convince readers not to believe his own ears, my eyes, our own estimates of Russian reality. Do not believe that you are not living that you pay a little, that you always rob the officials that the country has turned into a raw materials appendage, and only the vertical rogue masquerading as a scholar of the nightingale, who seek to discredit honest people trying to seriously look into the real world.Quote:"1. Intentionally or not, Rakitskiy make a false assessment of the phenomena. (Where the validity of the scientific assessment of hell?)Two. From the false premise can not be done the right conclusions. (Where is the proof of the falsity of parcels listed in the article Rakitskiy?) And what is valuable in this case? Smoothed, pomaded facts of our daily lives? Yes, it's just marking time, trying to divert away from the real solution to the problem. "And now the reader, come back to the beginning of this false scientific reports of the nightingale and try to see and understand who takes away from real problems and solutions that we have reported interesting and important, this soloist.VictorJoined: 21.04.2006 Posts: 1 Location: Perm
 Posted: April 21, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject:
 The day of solidarity of workers, or more precisely, the day of the trade union Solidarity. It would be useful to identify the urgent task Russian employees, ruthlessly exploited by employers.I agree with Vladimir-th - the main problem of Russian employees - we do not have strong, independent trade unions of employers. The unions of the FNPR, of course, does not count, they are corrupt priori (here again, Vladimir rights). How do you get the formation of strong, independent from employers and undivided production, trade unions outside?Here is my call for May 1:Employees, to expose the venality of the FNPR's TV trade unions, employer accountability of their leaders and authorities, boldly create territorial (urban, regional), trade unions, trade unions of their choice, ie no bosses!Achieve statutory prohibition exempted for union leaders 'incentive' payments from employers (premiums on the basis of the enterprise, rewards, etc.). Any union leader released obtain money (property) out of the hands of the employer should be regarded as a fact of corruption.Strive for the election of union leaders only through direct (vote all members of the union), secret, alternative choices. Do not allow the election of union leaders from among the graduates of the employer. Remember, as the wolf does not feed them, he still looks to the forest! Cook the trade union leaders from their colleagues.Require the establishment of the minimum wage (SMIC) for at least 10-15 thousand rubles. Minimum wage of 800 rubles. - The shame of the ruling party "United Russia"Achieve financial openness of trade unions, the opening of the information on wages exempt trade union leaders, their other income. Pursue the introduction of the order of when each free trade union leader is obliged to fill in a declaration on their income. Any member of the union shall be entitled to receive any accounting document proforgana any of their union.Strive for freedom of information in the union. A union must have the right to apply to trade union organization, not just in the proforgan.Last edited by Victor (Sun April 23, 2006 9:02 pm), edited 1 time in totalPublicistJoined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 82 Location: Moscow
 Posted: April 23, 2006 8:09 am Post subject:
 Support workers Yasnogorsk Machine-Building Plant in their requirement to pay salary arrears. Showed true solidarity with workers forced to seek his salary through the strike.The text of the leaflets:Attention! Committed a crime! The workers of "Yasnogorsk Machine-Building Plant" for more than three weeks conducting a hunger strike. People are desperate non-payment of wages. On all calls to the various power structures and law enforcement was no answer. Only the solidarity of all working people can save the starving from death.Comrade, do not be silent, spoke in favor of workers. April 21, 2006 at 14 o'clock in the administration of the city of Tula was held an unsanctioned picket, which was attended by workers of "Yasnogorsk Machine-Building Plant" with the support of activists and representatives of the Komsomol AKM (b). About 30 people came to the city administration to demand a meeting with the governor Dudko VD Picketers unfurled a banner "All salaries of officials - working", chanted slogans: "Governor, come out!", "Paycheck - It works!" and handed out leaflets to passers-by. However, Protestants have been waiting for police patrols and buses with riot police officers who surrounded the protesters on the steps of the administration. When the workers and activists AKM sat on the ground in protest and said they will not go up to meet their demands, riot police began to pick them up and carry on the bus, using stun.Working Yasnogorsk plant a month ago on hunger strike demanding the return of their salary arrears: Plant owed them about 40 million rubles. But to pay the administration of the plant is not going on the grounds that the plant - and the bankruptcy of the salaries do not. However, the money is - even now, the plant releases a monthly production of 30 million rubles. AQM believes it is necessary to break the information blockade, arranged by Tula and federal authorities. It is essential that people know the whole truth and adopted the experience of fighting for their rights.VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 22
 Posted: May 16, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject:
 Help came unexpectedly, and from where is not waiting for! American workers have supported and worked out in detail the idea of ​​movement of workers for a strong and independent trade unions of employers.Quote:Do union members have the right to organize around the idea of ​​how to conduct union business. It is more than entitled to voice their opinions. That is, we have the right to persuade others and create a movement for reform in the union.Quote:The movement emerged in the TDP in 1976, when union members Timsterov [1] advocated a more equitable agreement in the industry. The primary aim was to show that the union can get a better agreement if its members would vote against the treaty did not suit them, and will be ready to strike.Because the higher trade union officials tried to "push" [2], these contracts, the members of TPD considered unaccountability of its leadership as one of the main obstacles in the confrontation with employers. The movement began with a TDP of several dozen truck drivers and dock workers who were distributing information on the requirements put forward in the course of collective bargaining, and by the mid-90s has grown to several thousand people, representing all trade union organizations Timsterov.Since its inception and up to 1989 TPD activity was mainly focused on treaties: the pressure on the negotiators, and in between talks - an analysis of labor disputes. At the end of the 80 TPD was still small, but it has enough clout to convince the majority to vote against the concession contracts in the sector of freight traffic, the company UPS (Courier Mail Service) as well as for carriers of passenger vehicles (truck drivers delivering new cars from factories or from ports in the area car dealers).At the same time members of the TPD listened to what the rank and file union members talked about the trade-union officials who have betrayed their interests. TPD campaigned for the right to choose the top leaders of the direct ballot, to ensure their accountability.The union Timsterov, like most other trade unions in the United States, elected congresses at the senior management. These conventions differ from most other union congresses of the fact that almost all the delegates were the local trade union officials, who are "ex officio" automatically become delegates. In the rank and file union members had no opportunity either to vote or to vote.Thus, there was a closed system of local government officials and higher, the international, level, which helped each other to hold power, but with the rank and file union members could not be considered.Read the first chapter of an electrician and a specialist on Automatic Control Mike Parker and journalist Martha Gryulle "Democracy - a government [people]." The restructuring of the trade unions from the bottom up. http://www.solidarnost.org/pervaya_glava.zipVladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 22
 Posted: Thu May 21, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject:Trade union center on the site (http://www.profzentr.ru) published an interesting and instructive book VR Nekrasov, "Articles on trade unions." Thoughts, ideas, conclusions and recommendations of the author frank and honest, because through suffering. Interestingly the author himself - Viktor Nekrasov, his fate and biography. Suffice it to say that he was the first president of the Confederation of Labour of Russia, FNPR adviser and is now the representative of the union of health workers in the Central Federal District. For more information about the author can be found in his own book, "Articles on trade unions." The full version of the book is available at the trade union center. Here is a link to it:http://www.profzentr.ru/index.php?mp=ath.php&sec=35Quote:What do unions have to actually affect the course, reforms in the country? The answer to this question is concerned and the union leaders and many rank and file union members.
  GluhovVI Forum AdminJoined: 29.09.2005 Posts: 28
 Posted: June 2, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject:
 Readers of the branches, "On Trade Unions" are acquainted with the first 92 pages of the book of Mike Parker and Martha Gryulle "Democracy - a government." http://rpr.ur.ru/article/MPMGD.zipGluhovVI Forum AdminJoined: 29.09.2005 Posts: 28
 Posted: July 5, 2006 10:11 am Post subject:
 Readers of the branches, "On trade unions" can continue acquaintance with the book of Mike Parker and Martha Gryulle "Democracy - a government." Material added another sixteen pages.Here are the headers of new themes:Why are union members are passive,Why are union members are active,The unions are fighting against racism in their area,How do I know that you're successful organizational work,Why called a volunteer?,We must ask,Concentric circles of activity,The significance of the case and the game of bridge,Trade union training, trade union meetings, How to make the meeting more interesting and usefulReformist factions, show how the power of the rank and file union members. http://rpr.ur.ru/article/MPMGD.zipPublicistJoined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 82 Location: Moscow
 Posted: July 23, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject:
 Indeed the situation that has arisen in one of the largest oil companies in Russia - "Surgutneftegaz", reveals the fundamental contradiction between the owners of the company and hired the workers. And no matter how trying the representatives FNPR in his pocket the newspaper "Solidarity", distort the situation with the advent of "Independent Trade Unions of the drivers'Quote:Their main requirements are taken from the official proposals united trade union organization "Surgutneftegas". Not only do they tell employees what their requirements are, so they are also more and push them to the protest. Zakharkin as a trade unionist, said Yuri - just doing his advertising.but they are forced to admit that the administration seeks, as little as possible to pay the workers and trade unions operating in this carefully it can help, constantly referring to the work, the result of which none of the workers and did not see it. And therefore, immediately resorted to threats, "What is to join an independent union is fraught with the exception of the Oil, Gas, because the statute does not allow to be in two trade unions," which clearly shows on whose side of the Oil, Gas and leadership. Everywhere claiming that the company's administration and the unions care about the current work, the author seemed not to notice that the ratio of wages at a premium - 30% to 70%, it's just draconian conditions of exploitation of workers, it is a hidden system of fines, which were not in Tsarist Russia. And their salaries in 15 000, not enough for the most necessary, in the north.At one time, only the peoples of the Russian trade unions have exhibited the requirement that the fines did not exceed 10% of total earnings. And today we see how the administration set up to 70% bonus, hidden fine, and trade unionists just talk about social partnership, and not protest against such discrimination of workers.And, according to the chairman of the district committee, "Oil, Gas," Albin Tsykin, which "is there to protect the interests of wage workers," it's not penalties, but "the system so that the person carried out all their work function to return a second, - labor discipline" . Good union leaders! If we continue in this vein, it is unclear how to become union leaders Tsikinoy, then the whip, and the cooler is quite appropriate, to maintain labor discipline. And there is no reason to resent the opinion of profdeyateley, because employers are almost agree "with the new year, I'm sure we will have a guaranteed proportion of salary to award 40 to 60." Not the employer, but simply the benefactor! Only 60% of hidden penalties.From all this it is clear that the workers are doing the right thing, creating a trade union, trade union leaders away from protecting the interests of employers.APJoined: 20.03.2006 Posts: 1
 Posted: July 26, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: Trade Unions
 The site union retirees "Les Miserables" has been replaced by a few (adding) the supply of information about the organization. Created a section on disability litigation (Unionist) for the right to receive retirement pension in accordance with the Act, ie to the extent of his brutality, what his "decorated", but not inhuman. In the archive section 96g introduced the application in October. That took time to expose the false standard are then organized LZhEprofsoyuzami LZhEprotestov.I think actual signified statement today for a discussion on this topic (http://otvergenye.narod.ru/22.htm). In the sense that, speaking of the trade unions, should proceed from the realities of Russian self-perception of the proletarians of their social status, ie feeling, as proletarians. The fact that the graft (vzombirovannye) standards of the Soviet mentality that destroyed everything in the mentality of the proletariat, which was supposed to produce genetically it profobedinitelnye pulses, melted under the new market standard phraseology in the thinking being socially inferior, and therefore powerless, unable to think this protest, and hence unable to present a genuine protest. And no zabugornye tips will help improve the situation in our situation. Their experience - experience with the proletariat, not subjected to such a powerful influence on the clouding of consciousness profzavetov ghost of Lenin and the subsequent meltdown.To the question "What should I do?" I would ask the counter, "But whom do?". And the meaning of the interrogative pronoun "what" you first need to be clarified. Do-it must be a union. But there is a union, you should understand before it determined the question "What should I do?" In its context, what specific actions to make, make.VladimirJoined: 16.11.2005 Posts: 22
 Posted: August 22, 2006 9:11 am Post subject:
 The plant "Apatite" continues "Italian strike", which was not seen in the JSC. August 21, 2006, 12:39 The fact that the Central Mine mill Open Society "Apatite" is "Italian" strike, we have already reported. The action consists in the fact that workers come to work, but perform their duties strictly according to the rules of health and safety: compliance with the 7-hour day, with all safety regulations. The strike involves about 300 people.According to the information-analytical department of the Murmansk OK SCM RF Kirovsk a meeting of the "Union of Workers," an informal movement which defends the rights of workers in large industrial enterprises of the Murmansk region. It was decided to appeal to workers to support the "Italian" strike of the Central Mine."We urge the leadership of Open Society" Apatite "for wage increases to the level of sectoral collective agreement (where the rate of 1-th bit is equal to the cost of living in the region - 5300 rubles) and the consolidation of our requirements in the new collective agreement.We ask the union of "Apatite" requirements to join the rank and file union members, "- said in the address of employees" Apatite ". "Comrades! Work with the strict observance of regulations on labor protection, do not go to work during unscheduled change; Perform work only in accordance with the issued to you along;Demand reduction of jobs in accordance with the instructions on labor protection and industrial safety. Enough to plow his uncle with a threat to their health and life is! "- Leaflets with the text distributed to the working plant. Meanwhile, a spokesman for "Apatite" Olga hook reported that there were no protests at the plant there. http://www.b-port.com/news/archive/2006-08-21-10/PublicistJoined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 82 Location: Moscow
 Posted: August 28, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject:
 "Officials are not allowed to trade union lobbyists to the section of the budget, and this infuriated the leader of the Federation of Independent Trade Unions (FNPR) of Russia Mikhail Shmakov. - According to the newspaper" Kommersant ". - But the White House in the threat of strikes did not believe it. The main thing is what hurt the trade union leader Mikhail Shmakov, - he was not allowed to participate in the allocation of budget expenditures. " Despite threats of strikes: "From our point of view, the adoption of the budget in the current version will result in negative consequences such as the inevitable strike and conservation of the situation with the underground economy based on the 'envelope' payment of wages, - said Mikhail Shmakov, the government is not going to listen to the leader of FNPR. Betrayal of the interests of employees, for the sake of power, and focus its activities on the development of various agreements with employers, rather than protecting the interests of employees, turned out to guide the FNPR ignoring the power of their own. What's to be expected.Guest
 Posted: September 10, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: union-a religion
 parties, trade unions have replaced is the main problem. Generally speaking, the union can be formed as a kind of religious community.PublicistJoined: 21.02.2006 Posts: 82 Location: Moscow
 Posted: September 28, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:
 Trade union newspaper, on September 27, happily reported that the State Duma agreed with the unions and the government to increase the minimum wage in the coming year to 1,400, and 2,000 rubles. "The meeting was attended by leaders of the FNPR and the Association of Trade Unions of non-production sphere, the chairmen of the" social "committees of the State Duma and representatives of the Government - Minister of Health and Social Development Mikhail Zurabov and Deputy Finance Minister Tatyana Golikova. After the meeting, Boris Gryzlov told journalists that the participants agreed on a far more significant in comparison with the previous government plans, increasing the minimum wage next year: from the current 1,100 rubles to 1,400 is not, as proposed by the government, and up to 2,000 rubles. "As we see, in the decision to increase the minimum wage took part quite representative citizens, but the results are insignificant. You could even say that miserable, since an increase in the minimum wage, it was decided to separate from the minimum wage rate scale, and now it will include all surcharges. That is, the minimum wage increase and no salary. Just a clever campaign move the party in power, "The main problem of increasing the minimum wage is its binding to a first-class Unified tariff system, and we have decided to separate these two concepts - Gryzlov said. - We set the task to reduce the gap between low-paid and highly paid workers. Given the command to prepare a draft law that the minimum wage can not be related to the size of the category of payment wage scale, and includes all surcharges. In fact, the minimum wage - this is the minimum wage earned by an employee of public sector in the month. "Separating the minimum wage from the wage scale, they may increase the minimum wage, and much more, but it does not affect the income of the people. The aim pursued by the leaders of the FNPR and Gryzlov, it does not increase salaries, and the struggle with the "envelopes", increasing the tax base. That said, and he Gryzlov: "In addition, it (the law on minimum wages)," a blow to gray schemes wage "(the notorious" envelopes "), is seriously prejudicial to the state. For the paltry minimum wage into the hands of unscrupulous employers first and foremost: the stated salary often has nothing to do with the money, koi are issued to the employee in fact. " Everything is as usual: say one thing and try to reach another, and then wonder - why have not reached that, as claimed.

 [1] union truck drivers and warehouse workers in the U.S. and Canada, note. my - Vladimir[2] are likely to have distorted translation: Do not "push" and "surrender", note. my - Vladimir